Scratch

If it wasn't programming, could we sue Scratch for their slogan? Imagine, Program, share. lol.

What he said. The problem is not "what is Scratch" but rather the way you worded the question. "Get me a drink." Tadaaa, programing. Setting the time on your vcr, programing. A tree gets a virus that disrupts its offspring's genetic code just enough to produce some new variation in leaf sizes... programming!
The point your brother should be arguing is the effectiveness of Scratch's capabilities as a high level programing language platform. In that respect, Scratch is indeed far more limited than C++, Python, etc as far as all-encompassing functionality. BUT... and this is a big "but", how many of the users here would you find writing scripts in any of those other languages, especially that actually turn into working applications? No, you're not gonna see the next commercially released Halo or Wii game coded directly from Scratch. But Scratch does let all of us programming newbs skip right over learning some bizarre programing syntax (again, like C+, Python, etc) and instead we can get immediate results that (drum roll please) actually function and can be posted for help and critiquing by other Scratch users. This means less newbs giving up on programming because it was "just too hard." Also, because of this truly amazing feature that is commonly taken for granted, I have learned scrolling backgrounds, sprite collision methods, inertia simulations, sprite AI, and a ton of other common computer/game processes in an amazingly short amount of time. And these are all processes that have been used longer than you and I have been alive and will continue to be used, regardless of what language they are scripted in.
As a teacher, I can honestly say that Scratch is the most intuitive introduction to computer programing that I have ever seen, and I'm 38 years old. Don't let any naysayers limit what you can learn. It would make far more sense to start with Scratch and then move onto a more proficient programing language than to skip Scratch all together.

And as far as those 'real' computer games and applications, pretty much gone are the days of the one-guy homebrew programing days. Nowadays companies hire a big staff of people who split up coding, graphics, audio, research, testing, etc in order to meet the high demands of paying consumers. So arguing about Scratch's ability to compete against other programing languages/etc is kind of like arguing whether your Jeep or my Honda would do best in the Indy 500. Um, we would both lose    It really comes down to what your intentions are as a user. I regularly write macros with a free program (Autohotkey) that blow people's minds, hack games, you name it. Now, is that programing? Are macros in general real programing? Lol.
If you really want to know the truth, If then Else is the most basic component of ALL programing languages and therefore is present in every single one of them. Because eventually, they all break down into binary... this or that,  on or off, wait or go, etc. Tell your brother that if he really wants to put his money where his mouth is, stick with Assembly language programing cause everything else is just "fake." Oh yeah, tell him to have a blast doing that too. ;P

ps. All kidding aside, this is the future of programing. Higher level programing becomes accessible only as technology evolves and makes it possible. My old Commodore 64 was named so because it had 64k of memory! And I don't want to talk about what we did before that! Scratch is also an excellent example of how functionality is reduced as you go into higher levels but the decrease in learning curves makes it far more accessible to the general public. I remember people complaining as DOS was being fazed out. Yeah, Windows looked neater and more people loved it but you could no longer get under the hood and tinker around. But hey, go see what the internet was originally created for. How do you think those guys felt when someone went "hey, you could data encode images and send them from pc to pc!" How about when the first "Coke" banner popped up on a web page? If those original scientists adopted your brother's way of thinking, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all because there would be no world wide web. So know you know how ridiculous his statement was but really, take it easy on him. Conflict is usually what gets us off our butts in the first place. Peace.

Last edited by Locomule (2009-10-28 19:49:35)

Anything where you are giving the omputer commands to follow, is programing. All programming is is giving the computer instructions to get ti to do what you want ti to do. You're giving it a program to follow. My mom said: "There simple forms and there are complicated forms. It doesn't change the fact that it programing." And I agree

Scratch is a programming language, just not a professional one.

It's PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE. But not advanced.

Scratch is definitely a real programming language. Consider that ALL other programming languages, (Python, C , C++, Perl, Ruby, XML, HTML, XHTML, Java and many others) are not real programming languages if you think that way. First, they are interpreted by something that can take the lines of code you write, and are converted into assembly language. Then the assembly language is converted AGAIN into binary code, that is, only 1s and 0s. Then the computer actually processes it and spits out the result. Scratch only goes through one more conversion, (graphical images snapped together into Squeak)
I would say that Scratch is a real programming language, also because all a programming language is is instructions for a computer. Scratch meets that definition, no? That is to say, Scratch is limited compared to other "programming" languages, but that won't keep me from liking it the same. If you read all of this, you are amazing. 

well...my opinion is its a way to start programming. i am studying computer programming and i started using scratch a while ago. it is really a simplified way of doing this.