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SmartIrishKid · 2009-02-03 21:00:52

EDIT: This post was originally a survey to see if anyone on Scratch speaks Elvish. Nobody does, so I have converted this post into a series of Elvish lessons.

(almost 4000 views...wow...)

I will teach anybody Sindarin Elvish if they want. This was the language most commonly used throughout The Lord of the Rings, and was also used in The Silmarillion.

Currently "signed up" (i.e. has replied to this post):

Toasty
golfer3
bosox397
technoguyx
hirandomperson
keikij
adityasm9
golfer3
GoogleplexPlus
katiOni

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-06-11 10:05:41)

Toasty · 2009-03-01 12:03:35

I don't speak elvish, is it hard to learn?

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-01 22:38:59

Not too much. I'll give lessons, if you want.
Hi dabo Saelúr-Iredorail-Chén isthad engi Edhelen...

(Now let SmartIrishKid teach you Elvish...)

I would recommend having a good Tengwar font. You can get one from here: http://www.dafont.com/tengwar-annatar.font The keyboard letters do not correspond correctly to the Elvish symbols, so you will have to input a code to get it right. For example, my phrase above would be translated one of two ways (depending on the mode used):

Sindarin normal: 9` 2]wh 8]âj.F7\`7l2Ph7]Öj\dlR6 `83]2 lsP` l4ljl6ˆ
Sindarin archaic: 9`B 2w#`N 8lEj~M7\7T2P$7YhEj\d~V6 iT32# sP$`B j$27E6Tˆ

Reply back when you've downloaded the font.

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-03-05 13:43:24)

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-05 13:43:08

OK, I'll continue.
Lesson 1: Pronunciation

1.1: Consonants
All consonants are pronounced as in English, with a few exceptions:

th is always voiceless, as in thin.
f is always voiceless (as opposed to the book where final f is pronounced like v) so the word nef (for example) in the book is spelled nev here.
ch is pronounced as in German Bach, loch (a fricative 'k')
dh is used for voiced th.
ŋ (English letter Eng) is pronounced ng as in sing. It is usually written 'ng' in the book, but is spelled ŋ here for clarity.
Initial l and r are written and pronounced rh and lh respectively.
chw is pronounced as a combination of German ch and English w.
y is never a consonant.

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-03-05 18:33:12)

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-05 18:32:36

1.2: Vowels
The vowels are pronounced similarly to German.

A = 'ah'
E = 'ay'
I = 'ee'
O = 'oh'
U = 'oo'
Y = 'uh' ('e' pronounced with rounded lips)

Also, initial i before another vowel is used as a consonantal y.

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-03-05 18:43:26)

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-05 18:41:42

1.3: The Andaith

Long vowels are marked with an acute accent, or andaith. This affects how long the vowel is held. Long vowels affect syllable stress. An andaith will also cancel dipthongs.

Note: In single syllable words the long vowels are especially long, and this is sometimes shown with a circumflex.

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-03-05 19:31:33)

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-05 18:54:42

1.4: Dipthongs
Some vowels combine to form dipthongs:

AI = 'eye'
EI = 'ay'
UI = 'we'

AU = 'ow'
EU = 'eu'
IU = 'ewe'

AE = 'aye'
OE = 'oi'

Note: 'ae' and 'oe' should technically be pronounced as two separate vowels. However, they are generally classified with the dipthongs.

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-05 19:03:38

1.5: Stress
These are some general rules for stress in Sindarin, taken from Harold E. Ensle's website

H. E. Ensle wrote:
The accent is on the second to last syllable unless that syllable does not have a long vowel or more than one consonant following the vowel. In this case, the accent is on the preceding syllable (3rd from last).

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-05 19:29:11

Lesson 1 Review
Practice saying the following Sindarin words:

Egledhron
Siŋech
Chwest
Belryg
En aear
Aduial
Andaith
Eithad
Thaur
Ióreth
Nargothrond
___________________________________

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-03-05 19:32:11)

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-07 14:20:38

Lesson 2: Writing Elvish
(skip this chapter if it's too confusing)

2.1: The Tengwar
Sindarin uses a writing system called the Tengwar (known in Sindarin as the Tíw) which, unlike English, is not laid out in some meaningless order, but is arranged by sound value:

Column 1: Dentals
Column 2: Labials
Column 3: Velars
Column 4: Labialized velars

Row 1: Voiceless stops
Row 2: Voiced stops
Row 3: Voiceless fricatives
Row 4: Voiced fricatives
Row 5: Long nasals
Row 6: Nasals/extra symbols
Row 7: Trills and laterals
Row 8: Alveolar fricatives
Row 9: Extra symbols

We will be learning about these symbols and their values over the next few lessons.

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-05-07 12:01:14)

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-07 14:32:33

2.2: Stops
The first two rows of the Tengwar chart are written with the stem down, indicating that they are stops. Hence, the first four characters have the values of:

1. t
2. p
3. c
4. cw or qu (never used in Sindarin)

The second row has an extra stroke off of the bow, indicating that they are voiced. So the next four symbols have the approximate value of the first four, only with more "voice":

5. d
6. b
7. g
8. gw

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-03-07 16:22:55)

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-07 15:35:34

2.3: Fricatives
The next two rows are fricatives, which basically means that they have an h added to them. Fricatives are shown with the stem pointing up. So the next four symbols are:

9. th
10. f
11. ch
12. chw

Once again, the voiced counterparts are shown with an extra bow:

13. dh
14. v
15. gh (in Orcish only)
16. ghw (in Orcish only)

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-03-07 16:23:11)

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-07 15:41:49

2.4: Nasals
Nasals are shown in Sindarin with a short stem. The next row has the value of:

17. nn
18. mm
19. ŋ
20. ŋw (never used in Sindarin)

Symbols 17, 18, and 19 are generally used for past tense extensions, which we will come to later. This is why they are grouped together. The sixth row is:

21. n
22. m
23. o (this is used as a vowel because there is no short ŋ.)
24. w

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-03-07 16:23:22)

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-07 15:52:47

2.5: The Last Rows
The last three rows do not correspond with the values that the columns dictate. The seventh row applies to the trills and laterals:

25. r
26. rh (initial r)
27. l
28. lh (initial l)

The eighth row applies to the alveolar fricatives (hissing sounds wink ):

29. s
30. s (not used in Sindarin)
31. ss
32. ss (not used in Sindarin)

The ninth row is used for extra symbols and vowels.

33. h
34. hw (voiceless w)
35. e
36. u

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-03-07 16:23:35)

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-07 16:18:35

2.6: Extras
Sindarin has a few extra symbols. They are shown here:

The first two symbols are the remaining vowels:

37. i
38. a

It has been said elsewhere that symbol 30 is used for y, but I find this unlikely. Instead, it should be shown like a longer form of the the i-symbol, or like symbol 38 on the Quenya table.

Two dots above are used for following i in dipthongs:

39a. ai
39b. ei
39c. ui

A bar or tilde is used for following u in dipthongs:

40a. au
40b. eu
40c. iu (this is a typo, the symbol here should be #37, not #36.)

A bar or tilde is also used for preceding nasal:

41a. nd
41b. mb
41c. ng

Other examples would include nt, mp, nc.

Punctuation (braces used for clarity):

42a. <,>
42b. <.>

Other punctuation is shown under #40 on the Quenya table:

Quenya 40c: <!>
Quenya 40d: <?>

A semicolon would be shown with three dots (a combination of 42b and 42a).

Also (not shown on the chart) there is the andaith from lesson 1.3. It is written basically the same as an acute accent.

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-03-07 16:27:35)

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-07 16:25:32

Lesson 2 Review
Try writing the words you pronounced in Review 1. (This will look better if you do it with a calligraphy pen.)
______________________________

Toasty · 2009-03-08 15:09:48

ok, I've tried to follow this, but BOY is it confusing smile I'll keep trying, but ....

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-08 18:07:58

Well, I haven't really gotten to the language itself. So far, it's just been pronunciation and writing.

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-12 19:12:33

Lesson 3: Nouns

Vocabulary:

Adan = man
Edhel = elf
Galadh = tree
Torog = troll
Balan = a Vala

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-12 19:32:56

3.1: Plurals
The plural is formed by vowel changes within the last syllable:

A » AI (E before two consonants)
E » I
O » Y
AU » UI
AI » Í
EI » Í

Example: hwest wind » hwist

If none of these are possible, or if the last syllable is a long vowel, then the plural is formed in -in.
Example: lír a row » lírin

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-03-12 19:33:46)

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-12 20:19:44

3.2: Collectives
The collective plural (i.e. all things within a group) is formed in -ath, -iath. For animate objects it is usually -rim, -oth, -hoth.

Example: gil star » giliath all stars
Example: naug dwarf » naugrim all dwarves

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-12 20:25:25

3.3: Vowel Harmony
In certain plural words, the syllable before the changed vowel will change as well.

Before ai, i, y:
A, O, U » E

Example: aran king » erain

This also applies to suffixes containing ai or i, particularly plural/collective suffixes.

Example: amlug dragon » amlegin
Example: imlad valley » imledail valley-dweller

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-13 13:20:59

3.4: Changes with Suffixes
The ends of certain words will change when a suffix is added.

When the suffix begins with a vowel:
n(d) » nn
m(b) » mm
ng » ŋ
ld » ll

Example: lavan animal » lavanning little animal
Example: dring hammer » driŋor he who uses a hammer

When the suffix begins with an R:
n » dh
m » v
st » th
nt » th

Example: adan man » adadhrim all men
Example: iant bridge » iathren like a bridge

SmartIrishKid · 2009-03-13 13:23:44

Lesson 3 Review

Pluralize your vocabulary words. Also, find the collective plural for each of them.

___________________________________

Last edited by SmartIrishKid (2009-03-16 12:47:35)

Toasty · 2009-03-13 14:41:10

cool, I think I'm starting to get the hang of this! Where did you learn it?? smile

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archived forums

#1 2009-02-03 21:00:52

Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#2 2009-03-01 12:03:35

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#3 2009-03-01 22:38:59

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#4 2009-03-05 13:43:08

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#5 2009-03-05 18:32:36

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#6 2009-03-05 18:41:42

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#7 2009-03-05 18:54:42

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#8 2009-03-05 19:03:38

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

H. E. Ensle wrote:

#9 2009-03-05 19:29:11

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#10 2009-03-07 14:20:38

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#11 2009-03-07 14:32:33

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#12 2009-03-07 15:35:34

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#13 2009-03-07 15:41:49

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#14 2009-03-07 15:52:47

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#15 2009-03-07 16:18:35

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#16 2009-03-07 16:25:32

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#17 2009-03-08 15:09:48

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#18 2009-03-08 18:07:58

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#19 2009-03-12 19:12:33

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#20 2009-03-12 19:32:56

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#21 2009-03-12 20:19:44

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#22 2009-03-12 20:25:25

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#23 2009-03-13 13:20:59

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#24 2009-03-13 13:23:44

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

#25 2009-03-13 14:41:10

Re: Eldarin/Edhelen/Elvish

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