Scratch

jji7skyline wrote:

veggieman wrote:

Ranking songs by how good they are seems silly to me anyway, especially if you base so much of your list on that time period.

Why especially that time period?

I'm saying that they shouldn't just base their rankings on a certain time period if they're try to compile all of the best songs. Music is constantly getting better, if you know where to look.

Also, I want to address something you said, DIY:
"A lot of pop and rap songs today increasingly have profanity in all sorts of forms, and meaningless lyrics like going for a kill and the such."
At your first clause:
While I would agree that profanity is often overused in pop & rap music, I don't think it's inherently a sign of badness and can be used artistically to incite certain feelings in the listener; isn't that what music's for. Profanity has been given such a special place in our diction that specific anger or frustration cannot be sufficiently expressed without it. Whether that is unfortunate or not is not my place to say.

At your second clause:
Since when did lyrics have to mean something or even make sense? You like the Beatles, right? "I Am the Walrus"? "Glass Onion"? There are countless songs from back then that don't make any sense or have any meaningful meaning behind them. Plus, something like "going for a kill" could legitimately be used (although generally it's not).

As for some artists not writing their own songs; that is true. However, what are the poor songwriters who can't sing supposed to do with their songs :"(

The Beatles totally don't have several songs about murdering people either, right?  Oh wait, they do, but it's ok because they're from BACK WHEN MUSIC WAS GOOD

I'm not getting any of the points being brought up; who the heck said anything about 'back when music was good'? I said there's modern music I enjoy too, for crying out loud... Heh, and I'll give flowers in the pouring rain to the person that can name those supposed two or three Beatles songs that allegedly talk of 'murdering people'.

Last edited by DIY (2013-05-01 08:38:01)

mythbusteranimator wrote:

Run for your Life

+ Rocky Raccoon, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, and that one. That's three! + there's arguably Happiness is a Warm Gun

Sellout wrote:

mythbusteranimator wrote:

Run for your Life

+ Rocky Raccoon, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, and that one. That's three! + there's arguably Happiness is a Warm Gun

Both the first two are Paul's songs, so I'll ask you this: Is Paul saying he feels like murdering someone? No. I am a fan of Harry Potter, and just cause there's death in it doesn't mean J.K. Rowling is actually invoking murderous feelings. Paul was writing a narrative, fictional tale. Get the difference.

And lol, Happiness Is a Warm Gun has nothing to do with death. John uses the gun as an image for the girl he's describing in the third segment of the song.

Last edited by DIY (2013-05-01 09:11:25)

DIY wrote:

Sellout wrote:

mythbusteranimator wrote:

Run for your Life

+ Rocky Raccoon, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, and that one. That's three! + there's arguably Happiness is a Warm Gun

Both the first two are Paul's songs, so I'll ask you this: Is Paul saying he feels like murdering someone? No. I am a fan of Harry Potter, and just cause there's death in it doesn't mean J.K. Rowling is actually invoking murderous feelings. Paul was writing a narrative, fictional tale. Get the difference.

And lol, Happiness Is a Warm Gun has nothing to do with death. John uses the gun as an image for the girl he's describing in the third segment of the song.

OK, who's to say rap artists aren't doing the same thing as Paul and John were in those songs?

mythbusteranimator wrote:

DIY wrote:

Sellout wrote:

+ Rocky Raccoon, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, and that one. That's three! + there's arguably Happiness is a Warm Gun

Both the first two are Paul's songs, so I'll ask you this: Is Paul saying he feels like murdering someone? No. I am a fan of Harry Potter, and just cause there's death in it doesn't mean J.K. Rowling is actually invoking murderous feelings. Paul was writing a narrative, fictional tale. Get the difference.

And lol, Happiness Is a Warm Gun has nothing to do with death. John uses the gun as an image for the girl he's describing in the third segment of the song.

The song was about threatening a girlfriend with death

Harry potter does not threaten Ginny with death

I was talking about Paul's songs that were brought up, not John's. I wasn't talking to you there. See my previous post for your address...

Last edited by DIY (2013-05-01 09:24:29)

DIY wrote:

If you bother scrolling to my post at the top of this page, you'll actually see we were talking of feelings that singers invoke in the audience. It's moot to refer to songs that describe a fictional tale at this standpoint.

I don't see a post like that (And my pages are set to show 50 posts per page so I doubt it's at the top of mine anyway). But what kind of feelings are the singers meant to invoke in the audience in the Beatles' songs about murdering?

DIY wrote:

Sellout wrote:

DIY wrote:

If you bother scrolling to my post at the top of this page, you'll actually see we were talking of feelings that singers invoke in the audience. It's moot to refer to songs that describe a fictional tale at this standpoint.

I don't see a post like that (And my pages are set to show 50 posts per page so I doubt it's at the top of mine anyway). But what kind of feelings are the singers meant to invoke in the audience in the Beatles' songs about murdering?

It's the reply to veggieman's post, where he brought up this "incite" bit.

That post doesn't seem terribly relevant at all. I don't see why you directed me to this post

And

There are Beatles songs about murdering mentioned earlier. What feelings are those supposed to give you?

Mentioned this in an edit to the above post, but I'll quote it again:

If I interpreted you right, you're asking what other meaning is supposed to get across to the audience in their songs that talk of murder? Well, a narrative tells a story. It may or may not have a moral. Paul isn't using Maxwell as his mouthpiece or adopting a persona - it simply serves its purpose as telling a tale.

And in that old post of mine, unless you're not reading the right one, you'll clearly see that the bit where it says "this [expletive] guy/girl I'm gonna kill..." is really talking of personal narration, not of what some fictitious character says.

possibly wrote:

DIY wrote:

Who said music is constantly getting better? That's a first from what I've ever heard. O.o

This is true about anything. We as a human race are constantly getting better in what we do! That doesn't discount anything that people have done in the past, and the past shouldn't discount anyone in the future.
You say that there is a lot of bad quality music today? Well, guess what. There was a massive amount of bad music 'in the good old days' too. But what we see as outsiders from that era is what was good or popular.

DIY wrote:

As I said, I'm not hating on all modern music. There is nice stuff present in the contemporary music industry, but I have reason enough to believe that music nowadays is nowhere close to its heyday.

Don't make this go in circles.

DIY wrote:

possibly wrote:

DIY wrote:

Who said music is constantly getting better? That's a first from what I've ever heard. O.o

This is true about anything. We as a human race are constantly getting better in what we do! That doesn't discount anything that people have done in the past, and the past shouldn't discount anyone in the future.
You say that there is a lot of bad quality music today? Well, guess what. There was a massive amount of bad music 'in the good old days' too. But what we see as outsiders from that era is what was good or popular.

DIY wrote:

As I said, I'm not hating on all modern music. There is nice stuff present in the contemporary music industry, but I have reason enough to believe that music nowadays is nowhere close to its heyday.

Don't make this go in circles.

This isn't going in circles, though. It's not saying that you don't like any modern music; it's agreeing with my point that modern music is inherently better. Bands for ages have had bands like the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, the Jimi Hendrix Experience, etc. as influences and then go on to create amazing music, building on top of the success of others. Then others come and have those bands as influences, and build off of them; and so on and so forth. Sure, there's a lot of awful music but if you really don't think that music is getting better, then I really think you're not bothering to look hard enough. Art isn't like a government; there is no "heyday".


"I'd rather listen to a song that makes easy listening and spreads a nice message.":
I definitely do a lot of the time, but I don't always want that. The world is an ugly place, and music reflects the world. When I'm frustrated, I listen to frustrated music; then, often, I feel like I've let out those feelings and can move on to something else. Anger often results in beautiful art, and trying to limit that would be silly. I agree that it's really not great to talk about killing people; however, the profanity has nothing to do with that.

I have more things to say but not time to say them since I have to go to school (and I don't think I'll get to them later) but whatever.

"Classic" rock is ever-expanding, right now they're at the point where songs from the 90s are creeping into the "classic" stations, and ten years from now there'll probably be songs from the 00s that people count as "classic" and listen to and play on radio stations as antiquated "genius" novelty so they can whine about how music will never be this good again like with the Beatles, Led Zep, etc now. It's just a matter of time before RHCP, Pearl Jam, and Fugazi are the untoppable classics that people are arguing over. So yes, music good enough to preserve and keep being listened to/stand the test of time is still being made.

I've heard Nirvana songs on the "classics" radio station. I was alive when this band was performing and touring and on MTV, and they've already been shelved as "classic." Pearl Jam too, I'm pretty sure

Last edited by Sellout (2013-05-01 12:05:09)