Scratch

co13 wrote:

veggieman: I realize I cannot use that domain at this point. It is way too much work for a single person especially like me to run I said I cannot even code (the sad truth). I thought I would be able to edit a few things with instructions, but there's not a instructions manual for that. About the web server, yes it is far too difficult for me to understand. It would take years for me to learn, and all I have is hours of free time, barely. It also depends which day I get that hour of free time. However, I still think it would be worth a shot to try it. That's if it wasn't too hard to understand. I did read some of the guide. That's why it's too difficult for me to understand. I didn't thought the scratch site was really that powerful (I didn't think about it). Nothing comes easy these days. Please don't say "Would did you expect". I understand that now when it comes to webservers. This is what I mean sadly: I do not have the slighlest ability on how to run a web sever although I was looking to learn this and make it work. Sort of dedicate my free time to make it, but the truth is I am extremly unexperienced in this server. It makes me feel disgusted to say, especially to a scratcher like veggieman who knows this much about webservers.     I would make a sad face, but showing weakness would be worse. Thanks for the guide though. I might be able to use it in the far future.

Oh, don't feel bad! It's definitely alright to not be able to code and not have understood what a behemoth the Scratch website really is; it hasn't been long since I really started to understand that. So long as you're dedicating your time to something you really enjoy, I think you're doing fine. I didn't mean to intimidate you; I'm just trying to make sure you're cautious, know what you're getting into, and tried to provide the best references I could to help. Good luck in whatever you try to do! 

(and hopefully [wink wink] the ScratchR2 source is made available at some point and is easier to use)

jji7skyline wrote:

Veggie, you forgot I was able to make it work (twice) on osx, and I still have it and an start it anytime. Also there seems to be a lot of wrong info on this topic.

1. Anyone can use the scratchr code to make a similar website.
2. Although you won't be able to use scratch in the name, you could call it something like nostalgia programming or similar. I'm sure people will be interested.
3. Most ISPs are fine with servers, just make sure you have a good broadband. Up speed is more important than down speed in this instance, but you should have at least 100kB/s of each.
4. All, that's right, all modern desktops and laptops WILL work for a web server. Even a raspberry pi. However depending on the amount of traffic you get, and the nature of the website, you should have most off the following: *nix os (Linux, osx, etc.), 3GB RAM, Intel atom or faster processor (note Apache and PHP cannot utilize multiple cores, so a 4ghz single/dual core will be more suitable than 2.2ghz 8 core.), 16GB HDD space.
5. I can provide instructions for osx, veggie has instructions for windows on his site, you can use either to install scratchr on your computer, or use Linux knowledge if you have any.

Note I said use a *nix os, but you can use windows if you must.

*veggie
And I never heard of you getting it to run but it may have just ran past me somehow.

1. No-one ever disputed that, and addressed in my post
2. See above
3. Not in my experience; what are some examples (in the US)?
4. I wouldn't imagine 16GB would be enough if you were actually serious about this
5. See 1&2

And it's actually much easier (although a bit more dangerous) to do much of it on Windows because it's got awful permissions (but that means you don't need to chmod a whole bunch of stuff)

The main advantages of using a *nix system (and particularly Linux) is that it's easier to install the various libraries and tools that you need

jji7skyline wrote:

Your name was capitalised from being in the start of a sentence   

We were discussing it in that "installing scratch locally" topic 

1. Read previous posts.
2. I don't think it has been mentioned in that way before but whatevs.
3. Asking for US ISPs seems unfair, but Big pond is ok with it in Australia.
4. I did say that it depends on then nature of the website.

My name isn't ever capitalised, even at the beginning of the sentence; that'd be ridiculous. IPod.

3. It's totally fair since the OP is from the US :>

Actually, Skyline, i'm not sure veggie did know that you couldn't answer the question. Perhaps he thought you had experience with ISPs based in the US, even though you're in Australia. Benefit of the doubt is very helpful. 

Firedrake969 wrote:

First, like Paddle said, you can't use "Scratch" in the title, which defeats the purpose.
Second, if you "ruled" the site and you didn't call it Scratch, which you couldn't, people wouldn't come here.
Third, it's an MIT domain.
Fourth, the ST has the power to not let you unless you hack.  And most people can't hack a university known for its programming prowess.
Fifth, who let anyone lead?  Shouldn't everyone be equal?

No support.

You misread #4.  I didn't say you're a hacker or you would teach hacking (you're implying you would be a teacher on the website; why not make your OWN instead?), but you'd have to hack to get the domain, website, etc.

You could make a site called ProgrammerNetwork.(Which let's you upload projects on the site)I'll be a dev for it.(I know html,js,css,php)And using my 1free i'll host

Seems like I have gotten a second chance to save this site! First after scratch I was thinking to swtich to BYOB3.0, and use html5. However, html5 seems it can serve a purpose now even if I copy+paste stuff. I more looking foward to learning it. copy+pasting code can just get programming done fasting, since there is a lack of time involved. However learning some of it will make me program things like a site faster since it's easier  to do when you have it meomorized. I still will decide weather or not this is possible after I view all these comments above. First, my laptops and desktop CPU both run windows. Although I do know how use to a mac and I use one a a lot, I just don't have one in my house. Meaning that I know  what certain command keys are and desktop shortcuts. At the end of this I have one question but before I ask it, I will try to reply to all the these comments above this one first.

veggieman: Thanks for that. However, I might be able to use html5 for the server if I were to set one up. Lightnin' said that Rasberry Pi requires a 45$ CPU. My laptop is kind of old for laptops. I got it in 2006, and I think it was built around 2005. Although, it's running windows7 which is a modern desktop for laptops. I think windows 8 is desgined more for mobile touch screen devices (like windows phone), and gaming desktops. My laptop has a strong wifi internet connection, I think someone said it requires a strong ethernet connection or one with a direct cable? Is this correct? Veggieman, do you know? First, I will try through wifi. My main point is that my newer laptop, might be able to run it than this one. It's actually just a more powerful version of my laptop. I prefer a faster CPU w/a smaller screen than a slower one. I don't think it will be set-up by May6th when this site closes. That's the problem, I'm unsure how I will make my version of this site when this is gone. I'll figure that out though. Maybe use this site for reference since it's written in html. No, I won't copy the source code. My point is that what internet speed is required of Rasberry Pi? Yes I also hope the 2.0 source is a better one than the 1.4, and it has working menus. My 2 mods were made directly off 1.4. 

jjiskyline: This is true? This is why I think I have the "second chance". Your comment was the reason, thanks! So maybe if I follow the instructions slowly then I might be able to use the scratchr? I though rasberry pi was an alternative server host? So: Up speed is more important than down speed in this instance, but you should have at least 100kB/s of each, like you said? My two laptops aren't modern I don't think. I think the newer version might be enough powerful enough. I just need to know how fast my internet connection should be. Also, the Rasberry Pi server can hold 100kb/s of each?
Convert this: 4ghz single/dual core will be more suitable than 2.2ghz 8 core.), 16GB HDD space to the windows version of the processor. Aka: Which windows processor is required? I'll ask veggieman.

veggieman2: 16GB isn't enough? How much meomory is required on the server and how much is required on your actual CPU/laptop?

jjiskyline2: I'm in the U.S. Also, it would be impossible at this stage to change by ISP. I know what it is though; Optimum. Will they get mad (like Zuesking said/something like Zuesking said, although he? was referring to using scratchr) if I use Rasberry Pi?


veggieman3/jjiskyline3: veggieman since you are in the U.S. so you would know which ISP is ok with it. Is Optimum?


scimonster: Since you are the community moderator I have 2 questions, 1 doesn't relate to this topic. Where do you get your site approved so I can link it to the forums? My site follows the scratch rules, and so will the new 1.4 site if I'm able to make it. Also, you can name your site using most of the word "scratch" 's letters, is this correct?

Firedrake: No I would use a different domain, which would be extremely similar to the original scratch's one, but it would be an organization and it wouldn't be the same name as this site. I wouldn't hack this site, even if I could. I would use a different domain. I wouldn't be a teacher on the website. Just make guides, and the old 1.4 guides. Things like that. I would be the leader of it.

Firedrake2: Ok, "scratch3.0" was a complete guess on what the next name would be. It could be though.

Devloper123: Good Name. Although it would be unrecognizable. Hmmm... I never thought about actually coding the sharing projects features. The tutorial that I would use doesn't provide such information. Do you know how to? Chances are they would be uploaded to scratch2.0, and embedded to the new 1.4 site like my future TigerBuild site would. Significance: Only way I found that could share projects to the new 1.4 site, unless I'm able to code that in html5.  I doesn't completely defeat the purpose if you think about it. The "my stuff" section would just be an embedding area. I still would prefer the same sharingAlthough jjiskyline did say it would possible with scratchr even w/Rasberry Pi. So it's worth a try.

Devloper123 (2): No need for "salut", but thnx for telling me even though I saw it. BTW my username short is "co".

Probably the most important question of this topic (the question at the end. I referred to it on the top of this post): Once the 2.0 site takes over, will I still be able to revive (make the new version) of the 1.4 (this) site?

Note: I apologize for the extremely long post again for the third? time, but remember that I am replying to multiple scratchers (people/ppl) and typing extra information. After the above question is answered, I will probably start this project. SCRATCH1.4 and SCRATCH2.0 ON!

Firedrake969 wrote:

How many people would join with you being the leader?  Everybody is equal on Scratch (for the time being on the future "1.4" site, I guess  )

Unknown. Previous 1.4 supporters I guess. There are 20,000 left if them based on previous stats so hopefully some of them. Everyone will be equal on the new 1.4 site. Including new scratchers. I also think I decided to hold of w/scratch programming, and focus on HTML5. One thing I learned from being the leader of TeamRumble/QuakingProductions on a webs site is that if you don't encourage people to join and get a lot of projects on the site you won't end up w/ members except your team. My team was the last surviving scratch project making team b/c I continue to remind members. However it gets inactive sinc I'm very busy. I will focus on HTML/servers and if that works I will encourage scratchers to join and use 2.0 @ the same time. It will be difficult but it's always possible. Good Luck w/scratch firedrake!

It has some issues (like I haven't been able to get it to work again) but hopefully that can be figured out someday.

co13 wrote:

nathanprocks wrote:

I agree with some of this, but I actually like the new home page. I think it looks neater and more professional. I think the 1.4 forums should be archived and read only, so that everyone can still find important topics and links. Mods won't be forgotten because people will still continue modding 1.4. Scratch 2.0 is a program. There will be a downloadable version available.

To say the new site is more professional blow my mind away. I was about about to laugh real hard, but then I decided to continue reading. So I asked someone who was 14-16 and he said the new homepage  "dumb" and was about to use the "R" word which I can't say on scratch. I asked a 10yr old boy as well (baseballdude2 I know him, but he quit. I'm related to him but I can't say how since this is a website) and said the new site was extremely dumb with offense. Who wants to continue modding 1.4 when 2 is out. When the 1.4 supporters mod 1.4 no one will use it if there aren't anymore 1.4 scratchers. That's why the 1.4 supporters need a site still. That's still not a reason to rid of the 1.4 site. You See?

I just asked a 16 year old to look at the 1.4 and 2.0. They have never seen Svratch before.

He said the 2.0 was better.

I asked 2 fifteen year olds and a 13 year old, they all said it look nicer. 

Also, it would cost a lot to host two sites.

Guys, please don't discourage him! People often learn a lot by trying something which is harder than they think. And who knows? With a couple of weeks of research and dedication, he might just pull it off.

I'm not saying it's not hard. I'm just pointing out that it is fair to let him try without beating down his idea.

That said, I'm not sure it's practical to host your own site out of your home for a long time. It needs a lot of system resources (to it it into perspective, the entire scratch team was needed to keep scratch up and running, and even then it had occasional server blackouts. Google, by the way, has warehouses and warehouses full of computers to keep their servers up...). And though scratch 1.4 had its merits, you can't stop progress. You can keep modding scratch 1.4 for its offline features, and that's a great thing. But people will also try to mod scratch 2.0 once it's source is released.

Keeping two websites is redundant, and you can probably spend your time better by helping out with scratch 2.0. You can contribute your favorite missing features to scratch 2.0 once the code it out!

Edit: I wrote scramble, and I want to make it clear that a) it's not being developed anymore and b) blob8108 is working on a replacement for scratch 2.0 (I'm working on that a bit, too, by adding a feature to convert scratch 2.0 to Snap!).

Last edited by Hardmath123 (2013-04-26 06:56:41)

First, I will try to start it. I just need to make my site for TigerBuild1.5 (my scratch mod-the mod in b/t scratch1.4 and 2.0). It's a back-up in case this wouldn't work, also it is for me to make my projects better. Yes I know you can't share projects to the scratch site. That is why I made my own site. It's actual purpose before this would to give 1.4 supporters another option however, even if I re-added the sharing feature to it it wouldn't matter since the scratchFP cannot run modded blocks. Although it is now a back-up to this post. It shouldn't take me past today to make most of the site. Maybe publishing will be a bit later (not that much later defintely in today/through may). Second, I'm looking to start this project right after that. I think I might starting to learn html, and learn about the php. Also I am probablhy going to use 000webhost (suggested by poopo who was against this, but changed his mind when commenting on one of my projects). Also, before I start this web hosting/coding a site needs to be clear to me. Assembla is a web-hoster? Although I'll be using 000webhost most likely as the web host. HTML5 is the coding language (not a question). ScratchR is this (quote from wiki): "The ScratchR platform is what allows Scratch projects to be uploaded to the Scratch Website. It also lets users comment on projects, add tags to projects, and create galleries." [close quote (not bbcode, just quotting in general)] So the scratch team didn't code scratchr themselves/make it? How do you use scratchr in an html site? Will I be able to use the scratch1.4 scratchr code even if the 1.4 site moves over to it?

Replies to comments above:

jji7sklyline: (I apoligize for getting you username wrong last time). So my laptop is ok. I though rasberry pi is both a CPU and a webserver program? Which is correct? Yes, I know the HTML5 is the programming language. What does markup language mean? I will use veggie's guide more carefully this time. I looked at it the first time and I kind of assumed it was too hard. I will try harder this time. I will also see soon if my ISP is ok with hosting a web server. Why wouldn't ISP's be ok with webservers?

lundfamily3: The Scratch2.0 homepage is aboviously designed for younger ages, I said 8yr olds and younger. I kind of meant it looks like it's for toddlers (ages 3-4) w/out scrolling down.. I asked a 10yr old and a 15 yr old and they both said that 2.0 looks dumb, and the 1.4 site looks better and it doesn't look like it's for toddlers. They also said the same thing as I did, "the homepage looks like it is for 3yr olds". Like a young child's entertainment site. To be honest, I don't think anyone over the age of 12 would actually join the site just based on the homepage. I also think you made that up. I wouldn't believe a 13yr old would join the site like a homepage like that (no offense if you had taken any). After you log-in to the 2.0 site yeah it's cool, but it is completely disguised by the homepage. If you reply, I won't respond b/c it's better to have 2 scratch sites than 1 anyone. I don't have the time for useless arguments (no offense again). Good Luck w/2.0 (abviously you are a 2.0 supporter). That's ok I will stay with the scratch community when 2.0 comes out anyways.

scimonster: Your right I don't know that much about this topic, but I know setting up a website w/a server could work. I will take your advice by reading some stuff about those topics. I was planning to do that anyways.

Hardmath123: Thanks for that. I'll will try. jjisklyline said that the web server needs to have 100kbs for downtime/uptime which the free version of 000webhost has. So it won't require the team. However, if this becomes a reality the site will be extremely slow anyways. It's something though. I'm just saying it's possible w/out a team.  Also, all my suggestions aren't followed by the scratch team b/c they don't listen to me. I think they think (specifically Lightnin) thinks I'm unexperienced in scratch however I been on for 2yrs. I have offered to give him help w/flash testing, but then I denied it b/c lack of time then. However, my suggestions for the flash player when it first came out wasn't listened to so I don't think It was distrust on the flash testing. I just think they don't want to listen to me.

firedrake967_test:
(I aplogize for getting your username wrong as well) I would lead the site by making updates/news and moderating it. Also I could make the next scratch1.4 versions. Specefics/and generals like that. That's probably the easiest part for me b/c I have experience from my other sites. Even though it was just my team (6 scratchers), I was able to make updates/discuss aspects of my team and the site. I think it is possible to get some members out of 20,000 and make updates. Not too hard compared to the other stuff. Also, I would make a project encouraging people to join the site. Eternity Inc. is a company not just a team started by average scratchers at the time. TeamRumble is started with average scratchers (like me) who become experienced w/scratch over time). It is the only surviving team made up of ordinary scratchers as far as I know. Although all of us program relatively well in scratch w/the exception of Tsunami since he/she is a roleplayer scratcher not a project maker. Members: me, skeletonxf, gamer2012, curiouscrab, flameklye, and Tsunami741.

Note: I will let you know if I'm able to start the massive project. If I'm unable to start it that means my ISP didn't let me according to their ISP policy, or if I'm unable to use scratchr in my site, or if I'm unable to use scratchr once 2.0 comes out (I think I will be able to for this one), or if my time schedule changes. However, I still think I might be able to get this to work. I am no longer replying to opposition/discouraging posts, unless they are serious/things that I need to know which are only opposition comments. I am not replying at all to the discouraging ones. Also if 2.0 comes out before this is resolved, then I will move this topic there b/c this forum section will be a read only. SCRATCH ON!!!

Note2: Errors such as spelling/unclear things will not be fixed since it took me a while to post this. Also I am no longer aplogizing for long posts b/c I am replying to a lot of scratchers.

Last edited by co13 (2013-04-26 20:11:06)

XAMPP is the best for Windows, OS X, and Linux.

You have to make sure to change those passwords and things though or your site will be easily hackable.

Last edited by veggieman (2013-04-26 20:47:07)