Scratch

shadowmouse wrote:

Let me explain my overall intentions. GLOOP stands for General Language Object Orientated Programming. It (hopefully) will eventually end up with a reasonably comprehensize dictionary of blocks for each language. I'm hoping to get someone who knows each of the popular languages (c++, VB, python, java e.t.c.) and get each one to make a plugin that scratch calls upon whenever a block different language is called. People could then (in theory) combine languages, and the simpler but slower languages could be used for the bits that don't need as much speed and would take up too much time to make whereas the more complex, faster languages would be used for the bits that require speed. This is probably way harder than I can imagine but I think that it should be possible. What do you think of the overall plan and do you know any programming languages other than squeak?

I didn't see this post before, but a few months ago, I started making a Scratch mod for Python programming. I have only made a few blocks because I am too lazy to do the rest.    Here is a screenshot: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/37687009/Scree … 5%20PM.png
I think something I should add is "zebra colouring" for the blocks to make it easier to see the blocks.

Last edited by nathanprocks (2013-04-08 03:39:47)

shadowmouse wrote:

That's amazing! If machinespray and caakitty agree to make a themed version of the source code and share it, could you add the features you've added to that (but in new categories) then re-share it?

I might be able to. My mod currently only works on Mac, but I can make it work for Windows and possibly Linux too. It depends if I have enough time though. You also have to have Python installed to run the code. Since your mod will support different programming languages, it should also detect if you have the supported programming languages before trying to run a program that doesn't exist on the computer it is installed on. Visual Basic would be possible to include in the mod, but that is only on Windows. C++ would work if the user has a compiler (the user would have to configure the compiler in the mod before running a C++ program).
I am not saying I would do all of this, but I might do parts of it.

Just so you know, I only have windows and i read something on the internet about FFIs which appear to be the answer to the multiple languges in one problem. I don't know that much about this sort of stuff (I've taught myself all I know about programming in just a few months) but if we had an FFI for each language could scratch call upon the appropriate one whenever a 'foreign language' block is used. Or could gloop include a C++ compiler e.t.c. either in a folder or actually in gloop.exe?

Would there have to be a morph when gloop is opened that has (basically) several checkboxes, each of which sets a global variable to either 1 or 0? Different parts of gloop (i.e. blockSpecs) could then use these variables to determine which blocks to show. Also with Visual basic I know that there is (Smalltalk isMacOSX) ifTrue: [  ] ifFalse: [  ] so I'm sure that could be changed to see if the user is running windows and therefore can use visual basic.

nathanprocks wrote:

and the path to the compiler.

I was hoping that gloop could contain compilers for all the languages that it uses that need them (it's meant to be a simple way to use all languages. I don't think machinespray's going to do a themed version so could you add your extra python features to a scratch source code (so that you have both languages) and put it on a sharing website please.

I was hoping to get a program that runs in C++ (for example) that squeak calls upon to run C++ or have an FFI if that would work. And nathanprocks, I tried putting Smalltalk isWindows ifTrue: [before the blockspecs (and a ] after) and it worked fine on my windows machine, but when I changed it to Smalltalk isMacOSX it said that ScratchSpriteMorph classes are not indexable. What does that mean and how can we get around it (so that VB blocks would only come up on windows)?

I put (Smalltalk isMacOSX) ifTrue: ["the blockspecs"]. As in I put the ...ifTrue: [ before all the blockspecs and the ] after the rest of the code. But it came up with an error when it returned false.. Though that may be becaues it cut off the entire code, it may need the ^t1, self obsolete blockspecs or whatever to be outside of the square brackets. I'll experiment more soon but I've got a lot of homework to do now.

You could have a look at how BYOB compiles into .exe and .app

shadowmouse wrote:

DigiTechs wrote:

You could have a look at how BYOB compiles into .exe and .app

That's not what I mean. Converting .ypr to .exe or .app is different from converting .exe to .app.

If you want the mod to run on Mac, download and unzip this file (I changed a few file names and stuff in Info.plist), make sure the name of your .image file is GLOOP.image and put it in GLOOP.app\Contents\Resources\. If you want to change the icons for GLOOP.app, you need a program that can edit .icns files. The icons are in GLOOP.app\Contents\Resources\.

I'm not allowed to use dropbox at the moment but I probably will be able to in a few hours. In the meantime can you please explain how you made squeak able to execute python.

shadowmouse wrote:

I'm not allowed to use dropbox at the moment but I probably will be able to in a few hours. In the meantime can you please explain how you made squeak able to execute python.

I made an app with Automator called ".run.app". The "." at the start of the file name tells Mac to hide it in Finder and Launchpad. The app opens Terminal.app and runs "cd /Applications/Pytch && python3 temp.py".

shadowmouse wrote:

This is the windows version: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4w4hjudzz51lgco/wXglmNEfCr. I thought that you could get whatever files are needed (scratchskin, .image, .changes, squeakV2sources e.t.c.) out of it and put them in the gloop.app resources. Can you see if that works please.

I can't get on Dropbox right now because I am at school using my school laptop and it is blocked. I can do it later though.

shadowmouse wrote:

nathanprocks wrote:

shadowmouse wrote:

I'm not allowed to use dropbox at the moment but I probably will be able to in a few hours. In the meantime can you please explain how you made squeak able to execute python.

I made an app with Automator called ".run.app". The "." at the start of the file name tells Mac to hide it in Finder and Launchpad. The app opens Terminal.app and runs "cd /Applications/Pytch && python3 temp.py".

Would you be able to convert it so that it runs on windows, and having jut looked on wikipedia at Terminal.app, does that mean that it only does text (console application) as opposed to moving sprites?

It runs the Python code in the console. Although I haven't made a GUI program in Python before, it should be possible to do in the mod. Yes, I am able to make a Windows version of it, but I need to install Python in a virtual machine because I don't have a working charger for my other laptop.

BTW, are you planning to have different programming languages in a single script, because that would be very difficult (at least from my knowledge).

EDIT: I put GLOOP in GLOOP.app and it runs fine. I am more confused now because I don't entirely understand how this mod will work. Do you want the mod to call scripts written in another programming language from GLOOP, while having all the usual Scratch blocks + extra blocks included in GLOOP?

Last edited by nathanprocks (2013-04-12 06:46:11)

shadowmouse wrote:

nathanprocks wrote:

shadowmouse wrote:

Would you be able to convert it so that it runs on windows, and having jut looked on wikipedia at Terminal.app, does that mean that it only does text (console application) as opposed to moving sprites?

It runs the Python code in the console. Although I haven't made a GUI program in Python before, it should be possible to do in the mod. Yes, I am able to make a Windows version of it, but I need to install Python in a virtual machine because I don't have a working charger for my other laptop.

BTW, are you planning to have different programming languages in a single script, because that would be very difficult (at least from my knowledge).

EDIT: I put GLOOP in GLOOP.app and it runs fine. I am more confused now because I don't entirely understand how this mod will work. Do you want the mod to call scripts written in another programming language from GLOOP, while having all the usual Scratch blocks + extra blocks included in GLOOP?

Yes. The idea is, when you open GLOOP, there is a menu where you select programming language(s)*.This by the time it gets finished may include C++, python, squeak, scratch, VB and java. If it is possible, the C++ blocks would looks slightly different from the java blocks (because it is also intended for learning programming languages) and from the other languages e.t.c. I am intending to have different programming languages in one script, but they wouldn't be able to interact with each otherthey would just go one after another.
e.g.

when gf clicked
cout < hello >

but if you wanted

if <Smalltalk isMacOSX>
cout < hello >
end

you would have to use
Smalltalk isMacOSX ifTrue: [cout < hello >]

*However if it is not possible to have multiple languages at once, you would choose a language, only the blocks from that language would show and the project would be saved as the appropriate type of file.

Ok, I think I understand now.