Scratch

joshuaho · 2013-03-04 12:48:02

I recently flagged a remixed project that I thought was a copy because there were no obvious changes that I saw. Do you think they removed it? Well, the next day, I woke up, went to the computer, logged on to Scratch, and...

Hi joshuaho, we took a look at the project you flagged as a copy but found some script changes made, which would qualify the project as a remix and not as a copy. We encourage remixing in the Scratch community, since we have seen how remixing can lead to creative, interesting projects. The website includes a "Based on..." link to give credit to the original author -- and we hope that remixers will also give credit in their Project Notes. Overall, we want the Scratch community to be full of creative activity and exciting projects, and remixing helps with that.

An admin message!! (I copied the message to this post)

Now, even though I am a scratcher, there are still many things I don't know as much as the Scratch Team does. I have a few questions about the message.

Hi joshuaho, we took a look at the project you flagged as a copy but found some script changes made, which would qualify the project as a remix and not as a copy.

But I did not notice any changes. Could there be a way to let scratchers know about the changes online?

The website includes a "Based on..." link to give credit to the original author -- and we hope that remixers will also give credit in their Project Notes.

I thought that giving credit was required. I read the some rights reserved page.

If you have any answers, please reply! And I hope that the Scratch Team replies too! smile

Last edited by joshuaho (2013-03-12 16:15:14)

Gravitation · 2013-03-04 13:12:08

Yeah, I read the license, that clearly states:

If you distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform the Work or any Derivative Works or Collective Works, You must keep intact all copyright notices for the Work and give the Original Author credit reasonable to the medium or means You are utilizing by conveying the name (or pseudonym if applicable) of the Original Author if supplied; the title of the Work if supplied;

It says that you (the remixer) must credit the original author, not some random script somewhere on the website.

Oh well, there's no use arguing with the ST. They're not going to change on our part.

joshuaho · 2013-03-04 15:48:53

Gravitation wrote:
Yeah, I read the license, that clearly states:
If you distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform the Work or any Derivative Works or Collective Works, You must keep intact all copyright notices for the Work and give the Original Author credit reasonable to the medium or means You are utilizing by conveying the name (or pseudonym if applicable) of the Original Author if supplied; the title of the Work if supplied;
It says that you (the remixer) must credit the original author, not some random script somewhere on the website.

Oh well, there's no use arguing with the ST. They're not going to change on our part.

I am not arguing with the Scratch Team. I am just asking a few questions. I may be promoted, but that does not mean that I know everything about Scratch as much as the Scratch Team does.

Last edited by joshuaho (2013-03-10 12:28:52)

technoguyx · 2013-03-04 16:44:05

The "based on" notice and the link to the original project are automatically added below the project player, to make sure the license is always complied with.

Guess there's nothing you can do. You may not notice any superficial changes, but perhaps the user felt there was another (possibly better) way to do a minimal feature in your project, and implemented it himself.

TRocket · 2013-03-04 17:36:28

technoguyx wrote:
The "based on" notice and the link to the original project are automatically added below the project player, to make sure the license is always complied with.

Guess there's nothing you can do. You may not notice any superficial changes, but perhaps the user felt there was another (possibly better) way to do a minimal feature in your project, and implemented it himself.

Yep, and if you still feel it is a copy, you can send the scratch team an email using the contact us link at the bottom of every page.

joshuaho · 2013-03-04 20:44:14

technoguyx wrote:
The "based on" notice and the link to the original project are automatically added below the project player, to make sure the license is always complied with.

Guess there's nothing you can do. You may not notice any superficial changes, but perhaps the user felt there was another (possibly better) way to do a minimal feature in your project, and implemented it himself.

Even if the remixer made changes, he must make ENOUGH changes. Otherwise, it is still considered a copy.

jvvg · 2013-03-04 20:48:20

joshuaho wrote:
technoguyx wrote:
The "based on" notice and the link to the original project are automatically added below the project player, to make sure the license is always complied with.

Guess there's nothing you can do. You may not notice any superficial changes, but perhaps the user felt there was another (possibly better) way to do a minimal feature in your project, and implemented it himself.
Even if the remixer made changes, he must make ENOUGH changes. Otherwise, it is still considered a copy.

But then that starts a whole debate about defining the term "enough". While it may seem simple, an arbitrary distinction like that won't work. For most stuff here, the criteria are fairly objective. The only exception is disrespectfulness, where I do think the rules should be clearer.
But my point is this will cause a wave of people flagging remixes saying that the remixer didn't make "enough" changes.

berberberber · 2013-03-04 20:50:01

No, any changes he makes will make it a remix. So, if I remix somebody's projects, and optimized a few things, it'd be considered a remix. It doesn't matter how big the changes are. Just email the ST. Also, the part about exporting everything, you can't do anything about that. I already told you that. Just flag it, and/or email the ST.

jvvg · 2013-03-04 20:53:09

joshuaho wrote:
The website includes a "Based on..." link to give credit to the original author
But sometimes,scratchers may just copy the scripts without importing the project. Then, there might not be a based on sign. What can we do about that?

That's a whole different story. That is an actual uncredited copy, which you should flag (and the ST will remove). However, if the "Based on" link is there, then it's acceptable to use someone else's project and make as few changes as you want.

joshuaho · 2013-03-04 20:54:09

berberberber wrote:
No, any changes he makes will make it a remix. So, if I remix somebody's projects, and optimized a few things, it'd be considered a remix. It doesn't matter how big the changes are. Just email the ST. Also, the part about exporting everything, you can't do anything about that. I already told you that. Just flag it, and/or email the ST.

A small change does not count. That is said on the wiki. http://wiki.scratch.mit.edu/wiki/Project_Copying

joshuaho · 2013-03-04 20:55:25

jvvg wrote:
joshuaho wrote:
The website includes a "Based on..." link to give credit to the original author
But sometimes,scratchers may just copy the scripts without importing the project. Then, there might not be a based on sign. What can we do about that?
That's a whole different story. That is an actual uncredited copy, which you should flag (and the ST will remove). However, if the "Based on" link is there, then it's acceptable to use someone else's project and make as few changes as you want.

But a little amount of change is not ok too. That is said in the wiki.
http://wiki.scratch.mit.edu/wiki/Project_Copying

jvvg · 2013-03-04 20:56:13

joshuaho wrote:
jvvg wrote:
joshuaho wrote:

But sometimes,scratchers may just copy the scripts without importing the project. Then, there might not be a based on sign. What can we do about that?
That's a whole different story. That is an actual uncredited copy, which you should flag (and the ST will remove). However, if the "Based on" link is there, then it's acceptable to use someone else's project and make as few changes as you want.
But a little amount of change is not ok too. That is said in the wiki.
http://wiki.scratch.mit.edu/wiki/Project_Copying

If credit is given, even if hardly any changes are made, it is acceptable.

joshuaho · 2013-03-04 20:59:01

jvvg wrote:
If credit is given, even if hardly any changes are made, it is acceptable.

Ok, thanks for your explanation! smile

cheddargirl · 2013-03-04 22:19:38

joshuaho wrote:
jvvg wrote:
joshuaho wrote:

But sometimes,scratchers may just copy the scripts without importing the project. Then, there might not be a based on sign. What can we do about that?
That's a whole different story. That is an actual uncredited copy, which you should flag (and the ST will remove). However, if the "Based on" link is there, then it's acceptable to use someone else's project and make as few changes as you want.
But a little amount of change is not ok too. That is said in the wiki.
http://wiki.scratch.mit.edu/wiki/Project_Copying

It depends on the change itself, and that is up for the ST to decided if the change is significant, not up to the flagger.

Sometimes, the change might be so small that it would be hard to tell just at a glance. But that's why the ST has a Remix Comparer tool that tell us what part of the project got changed, including sprites, code, music, and costumes. Exact copies show up with zero changes, project with edits in them will show what blocks got added and/or removed, what costume or music got changed, and any sprites that were added and/or removed. I'm quite surprised you haven't used it before flagging the project as a copy, it's mentioned on the Scratch wiki link you mentioned earlier.

joshuaho · 2013-03-04 23:08:24

cheddargirl wrote:
It depends on the change itself, and that is up for the ST to decided if the change is significant, not up to the flagger.

Sometimes, the change might be so small that it would be hard to tell just at a glance. But that's why the ST has a Remix Comparer tool that tell us what part of the project got changed, including sprites, code, music, and costumes. Exact copies show up with zero changes, project with edits in them will show what blocks got added and/or removed, what costume or music got changed, and any sprites that were added and/or removed. I'm quite surprised you haven't used it before flagging the project as a copy, it's mentioned on the Scratch wiki link you mentioned earlier.

I just noticed that.
Wait... it says that you have to enter the project ID. But how do you find the ID?

Last edited by joshuaho (2013-03-04 23:09:18)

cheddargirl · 2013-03-04 23:22:24

joshuaho wrote:
cheddargirl wrote:
It depends on the change itself, and that is up for the ST to decided if the change is significant, not up to the flagger.

Sometimes, the change might be so small that it would be hard to tell just at a glance. But that's why the ST has a Remix Comparer tool that tell us what part of the project got changed, including sprites, code, music, and costumes. Exact copies show up with zero changes, project with edits in them will show what blocks got added and/or removed, what costume or music got changed, and any sprites that were added and/or removed. I'm quite surprised you haven't used it before flagging the project as a copy, it's mentioned on the Scratch wiki link you mentioned earlier.
I just noticed that.
Wait... it says that you have to enter the project ID. But how do you find the ID?

The project ID is the number that appears in the project's URL. For example:

http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/GRA0007/3126314 -> The project ID is 3126314

joshuaho · 2013-03-05 11:52:22

cheddargirl wrote:
The project ID is the number that appears in the project's URL. For example:

http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/GRA0007/3126314 -> The project ID is 3126314

Ok! Thanks for your help! smile

firedrake969_test · 2013-03-05 12:17:10

joshuaho wrote:
jvvg wrote:
If credit is given, even if hardly any changes are made, it is acceptable.
Ok, thanks for your explanation!

There, changed the wiki so no more confusion.

joshuaho · 2013-03-05 14:38:14

firedrake969_test wrote:
joshuaho wrote:
jvvg wrote:
If credit is given, even if hardly any changes are made, it is acceptable.
Ok, thanks for your explanation!
There, changed the wiki so no more confusion.

Huh?

Firedrake969 · 2013-03-05 19:12:25

So there's no more confusion about it...

joshuaho · 2013-03-05 23:08:16

Firedrake969 wrote:
So there's no more confusion about it...

Oh, ok. Are you are a contributor?

kayybee · 2013-03-05 23:34:45

joshuaho wrote:
Firedrake969 wrote:
So there's no more confusion about it...
Oh, ok. Are you are a contributor?

Yes. He edited the wiki.

joshuaho · 2013-03-06 11:46:43

kayybee wrote:
joshuaho wrote:
Firedrake969 wrote:
So there's no more confusion about it...
Oh, ok. Are you are a contributor?
Yes. He edited the wiki.

Oh, ok.

joshuaho · 2013-03-10 12:31:15

cheddargirl wrote:
joshuaho wrote:
cheddargirl wrote:
It depends on the change itself, and that is up for the ST to decided if the change is significant, not up to the flagger.

Sometimes, the change might be so small that it would be hard to tell just at a glance. But that's why the ST has a Remix Comparer tool that tell us what part of the project got changed, including sprites, code, music, and costumes. Exact copies show up with zero changes, project with edits in them will show what blocks got added and/or removed, what costume or music got changed, and any sprites that were added and/or removed. I'm quite surprised you haven't used it before flagging the project as a copy, it's mentioned on the Scratch wiki link you mentioned earlier.
I just noticed that.
Wait... it says that you have to enter the project ID. But how do you find the ID?
The project ID is the number that appears in the project's URL. For example:

http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/GRA0007/3126314 -> The project ID is 3126314

Thanks for your help! However, I tried using it and I put the project's ID in it. But it says error. What should I do about that?

cheddargirl · 2013-03-10 19:48:59

joshuaho wrote:
cheddargirl wrote:
joshuaho wrote:

I just noticed that.
Wait... it says that you have to enter the project ID. But how do you find the ID?
The project ID is the number that appears in the project's URL. For example:

http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/GRA0007/3126314 -> The project ID is 3126314
Thanks for your help! However, I tried using it and I put the project's ID in it. But it says error. What should I do about that?

You need two IDs - the one of the original project, and the remix. If you're getting an error, it usually means one of the projects got removed.

Scratch

archived forums

#1 2013-03-04 12:48:02

Remix misunderstandings

#2 2013-03-04 13:12:08

Re: Remix misunderstandings

#3 2013-03-04 15:48:53

Re: Remix misunderstandings

Gravitation wrote:

#4 2013-03-04 16:44:05

Re: Remix misunderstandings

#5 2013-03-04 17:36:28

Re: Remix misunderstandings

technoguyx wrote:

#6 2013-03-04 20:44:14

Re: Remix misunderstandings

technoguyx wrote:

#7 2013-03-04 20:48:20

Re: Remix misunderstandings

joshuaho wrote:

technoguyx wrote:

#8 2013-03-04 20:50:01

Re: Remix misunderstandings

#9 2013-03-04 20:53:09

Re: Remix misunderstandings

joshuaho wrote:

#10 2013-03-04 20:54:09

Re: Remix misunderstandings

berberberber wrote:

#11 2013-03-04 20:55:25

Re: Remix misunderstandings

jvvg wrote:

joshuaho wrote:

#12 2013-03-04 20:56:13

Re: Remix misunderstandings

joshuaho wrote:

jvvg wrote:

joshuaho wrote:

#13 2013-03-04 20:59:01

Re: Remix misunderstandings

jvvg wrote:

#14 2013-03-04 22:19:38

Re: Remix misunderstandings

joshuaho wrote:

jvvg wrote:

joshuaho wrote:

#15 2013-03-04 23:08:24

Re: Remix misunderstandings

cheddargirl wrote:

#16 2013-03-04 23:22:24

Re: Remix misunderstandings

joshuaho wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

#17 2013-03-05 11:52:22

Re: Remix misunderstandings

cheddargirl wrote:

#18 2013-03-05 12:17:10

Re: Remix misunderstandings

joshuaho wrote:

jvvg wrote:

#19 2013-03-05 14:38:14

Re: Remix misunderstandings

firedrake969_test wrote:

joshuaho wrote:

jvvg wrote:

#20 2013-03-05 19:12:25

Re: Remix misunderstandings

#21 2013-03-05 23:08:16

Re: Remix misunderstandings

Firedrake969 wrote:

#22 2013-03-05 23:34:45

Re: Remix misunderstandings

joshuaho wrote:

Firedrake969 wrote:

#23 2013-03-06 11:46:43

Re: Remix misunderstandings

kayybee wrote:

joshuaho wrote:

Firedrake969 wrote:

#24 2013-03-10 12:31:15