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#51 2008-11-17 16:33:15

DarthPickley
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-06-13
Posts: 100+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

hey, what's with the rest of the body being a link or something after the or block?

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#52 2008-11-22 23:10:37

Ricardo-san
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-11-20
Posts: 27

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Port it for Mac!!!

Pretty please?  smile

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#53 2008-11-23 01:26:13

Jens
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Hi Rocardo-san,

you can already use BYOB on a Mac, no porting should be neccessary to run it. Just uncompress the archive into a folder on you Mac, put a copy of your "scratch.app" into the folder, and drag/drop the file called "byob.image" into it. There you are.

Please let me know if this doesn't work for you. Thanks!


Jens Mönig

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#54 2008-11-23 13:34:31

Ricardo-san
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-11-20
Posts: 27

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Thanks Jens! Works fine, but I have to manually choose the BYOB.image
Hm...this is complex! Definitely not easy, making these custom blocks...
Anyway, great program!  smile

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#55 2008-11-25 17:57:41

bhz
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-07-06
Posts: 100+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Can you make it so that
- It is easier to make a reporter (snap what to report in the report box)
- you can make text fields (so you can enter strings )

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#56 2008-11-26 08:01:19

Jens
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

bhz wrote:

Can you make it so that
- It is easier to make a reporter (snap what to report in the report box)
- you can make text fields (so you can enter strings )

snapping a reporter block into the report-field of the block editor really should be *much* easier, I absolutely agree.

I tried to make BYOB reasonably simple. There are many features which could be added, like internal lists, other kinds of parameters (sprites etc.). At the moment the only way to enter strings is to use a variable. I remember experimenting with text fields, but there were some issues... I agree that direct text input would be very nice.


Jens Mönig

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#57 2008-11-26 10:24:26

fullmoon
Retired Community Moderator
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Jens wrote:

I remember experimenting with text fields, but there were some issues... I agree that direct text input would be very nice.

Hey! You can't just tell us that and then NOT release a polished demo that works perfectly! Back to work!  tongue

Last edited by fullmoon (2008-11-26 10:25:21)


http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn100/fullmoon32/wow.jpg

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#58 2008-12-03 16:14:16

wordMan
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 82

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

what is the source code?


http://www.danasoft.com/sig/1024tim.jpg

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#59 2008-12-04 04:08:27

dimus
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-12-01
Posts: 7

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Hi Jens!
The BYOB is wonderful! But I can't edit old projects. Is there way do it?

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#60 2008-12-04 04:28:49

Jens
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Hi dimus,

Thanks for testing BYOB! in the prototype I disabled Scratch-compatibility (although it would be possible to implement), because I feared that sooner or later people would try to upload projects with custom blocks to the website, which might cause problems. I know that being able to at least import Scratch projects into BYOB would be very convenient, and I might consider this in a possible future version.


Jens Mönig

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#61 2008-12-04 14:48:34

deatheater
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-04-11
Posts: 1000+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

hey Jens I noticed that other programs normally are faster, when using BYOB I found that even at atomic, it still has a little wait in between, like with your dragon project, once it gets up to number 5 it takes a while before it finish (on atomic and no waits in the script), where as other programs would take it instantly.

Is this because the blocks feature in scratch lags it a bit?

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#62 2008-12-04 17:10:39

DarthPickley
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-06-13
Posts: 100+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

deatheater wrote:

hey Jens I noticed that other programs normally are faster, when using BYOB I found that even at atomic, it still has a little wait in between, like with your dragon project, once it gets up to number 5 it takes a while before it finish (on atomic and no waits in the script), where as other programs would take it instantly.

Is this because the blocks feature in scratch lags it a bit?

I know, even in TURBO SPEED!

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#63 2008-12-05 01:02:17

Jens
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Hi deatheater,

thanks for testing and benchmarking BYOB's atomic and recursive features!

You're right, "atomic" procedures won't make Scratch run as fast as - say - compiled C-code (or interpreted  Smalltalk code). I didn't intend BYOB to be so much as a speed-up tool for Scratch, but to find out how procedures, parameter passing and recursion could be woven into the Scratch interface and execution engine. Also, please keep in mind, that if you're playing with deeply recursive algorithms you will eventually be able to bog down *any*  system, so IMO it's less a question of overall speed but of how to design a programm so it provides some meaningful feedback what is doing.


Jens Mönig

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#64 2008-12-05 11:52:42

BATzerk
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-09-16
Posts: 2

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Hey, Jens, it's BATzerk (from the MIT conference! You helped me make a custom block in Squeak!)!

I just took a look at your amazing PDF file depicting the prototype of how to make your own Scratch blocks IN Scratch-- I shared with John Maloney my thoughts of the interface of how Scratch should allow users to make their own blocks back at the end of July... did he by any chance show the images I'd created to you, or is it that great minds just think alike??  XD

Jens, do you have an email address so I can send you the files I sent John? (My theory is a marginally different implementation of what you've done-- I think the fact that our two designs are so similar in concept is a FANTASTIC sign, and an even better reason we should promote Scratch to head down this road!!) I'd love to hear your thoughts on what you think of my ideas; I have an overwhelming fervor and desire to push Scratch in this direction, because I think it would completely change the language and methods by which we could organize our Scratch code. This is the addition that Scratch needs. (Admittedly, I haven't even thought about Scratch since September, but now I think you've gotten me involved in the community again!)    big_smile

-Brett Taylor (BATzerk)

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#65 2008-12-07 07:05:47

Jens
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Hey Brett, great to hear (or rather read) from you! I'd be very interested to look at your design and read about your thoughts. John didn't show me your files, but I'd sure love to see them anyway. I'm particularly interested in thoughts how to design procedure headers with parameters graphically (i.e. without parsing a "spec" string), and how to pass lists as parameters. You can easily find my e-mail by either googling me or from the chirp website. You can also post your thoughts (and pics) in this thread, so other may chime in!


Jens Mönig

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#66 2008-12-08 23:30:44

Donut-slayer
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-04-08
Posts: 13

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

This may sound wierd but I  Downloaded the application and there were picture of Ichigo, anyway do you just get the ability to edit scratch beacause your on the scratch team or are you an amazing hacker?

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#67 2008-12-11 14:48:07

mathguy
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-11-20
Posts: 19

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

can you make %v %b %L and such? how would you do that?

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#68 2008-12-19 11:34:54

itsme213
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-07-08
Posts: 38

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Jens wrote:

Hi Sophie,

thanks for testing the prototype! At the moment sprites can only access their own custom blocks, and not call other sprite's procedures/functions. I agree that this might be beneficial for e.g. a "math-services" sprite or so. I'm just not sure how to integrate something like it into the current Scratch blocks paradigm. Do you have any ideas on this?

Yes, I think it can fit in quite well. It also makes it even more useful, as calculated properties and commands can be referenced (from other sprites) just as easily as stored variables can be referenced today. It may have some threading/concurrency options to think through.

Just as you can today "Sense" a variable of another sprite:

(var name drop down) of (sprite drop down)

We could now do:

(custom block drop-down) of (sprite drop down)

In my kids projects, this would greatly reduce the number and namespace pollution of tons of global events (which are really attempts to address a specific sprite).

Regards - Sophie

p.s. is there a way to get notifications on a discussion thread here?

Last edited by itsme213 (2008-12-19 11:38:21)

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#69 2008-12-19 20:57:55

wordMan
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 82

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Donut-slayer wrote:

This may sound wierd but I  Downloaded the application and there were picture of Ichigo, anyway do you just get the ability to edit scratch beacause your on the scratch team or are you an amazing hacker?

just get a source code and you can also. i made some blocks on it


http://www.danasoft.com/sig/1024tim.jpg

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#70 2008-12-20 00:08:53

Surfer123
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-09-13
Posts: 33

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Jens wrote:

jcubed wrote:

you cant type numbers into the blocks

Hmm, I just checked and, yes, you should be able to type in numbers into the parameter-fields of any custom block you made (also into the "report" field in the block editor). Could you perhaps explain what you're missing a little more in detail? Thanks!

You should make it so you can do hat blocks and choose colors. (:


Muffins are awesome. Check out Worm!!

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#71 2008-12-20 05:37:36

Jens
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

itsme213 wrote:

I think it can fit in quite well. It also makes it even more useful, as calculated properties and commands can be referenced (from other sprites) just as easily as stored variables can be referenced today. It may have some threading/concurrency options to think through.

Just as you can today "Sense" a variable of another sprite:

(var name drop down) of (sprite drop down)

We could now do:

(custom block drop-down) of (sprite drop down)

In my kids projects, this would greatly reduce the number and namespace pollution of tons of global events (which are really attempts to address a specific sprite).

Regards - Sophie

p.s. is there a way to get notifications on a discussion thread here?

Hi Sophie,

I'm delighted by your suggestion to let other sprites access certain custom blocks. That way something like a sprite-based library system could be experimented with. In fact, it might be a nice start to only enhance the already existing block you mentioned which "senses" the variables of another sprite so that you can select any of the other sprites custom-defined reporter blocks. This would fit in nicely with the existing Scratch blocks while allowing sprites to gently expand their "public interface". I would also expect this to be very easy to understand by beginners and thus intuitive to use.

What do you think, could this (sensing custom reporters) be enough, or do sprites really need to directly execute other sprites' custom command blocks as well?

(It used to be that you could subscribe to forum topics, but sadly that feature got broken along the way and is currently not working. Hopefully Andrés manages to re-implement it sometime).


Jens Mönig

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#72 2008-12-20 15:03:59

henley
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-06-21
Posts: 1000+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Hi, Jens


Can you make a B.Y.O.B. version where you can make the "C Block" and have certain things such as %b (which makes "< >") and other of those stuff besides this thingy ( ).


"I've worked so hard for you and you give me nothing in return. Do you need help... Or do I?"

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#73 2008-12-21 05:03:02

Jens
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Hi henley,

I'm not sure if I understand your request right. You can already build your own boolean blocks by selecting the "boolean" checkbox in the block editor, but you cannot - as of now - define boolean parameters for custom blocks, nor create custom loops or event-hats. Could you perhaps give me an example of a use case for these ideas? I'm curious how this could help expanding BYOB. Thank you!


Jens Mönig

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#74 2008-12-21 11:11:51

buthead
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-12-12
Posts: 7

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

Ricardo-san wrote:

Thanks Jens! Works fine, but I have to manually choose the BYOB.image
Hm...this is complex! Definitely not easy, making these custom blocks...
Anyway, great program!  smile

i have to agree i love it!  big_smile

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#75 2008-12-21 17:13:33

NXTGeek
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-03-27
Posts: 100+

Re: ITopic: Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB)

okay, sorry, noob question....where can I download it from?

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