Scratch

technoguyx wrote:

soupoftomato wrote:

Well, tablets will never really be as good as an actual computer or laptop.

Physical keyboards!
ACTUAL gaming!
Choice of browsers!
Flash!
Scratch!
And so much more!

Lots of physical keyboards exist for tablets and smartphones alike.

I do see your point about gaming, but iOS/Android games are fine for a casual gamer, and casual gaming is still gaming.

Many different browsers exist for both iOS and Android as well. My dad uses Mercury on his iPhone and I use Dolphin on Android (well, when I steal my brother's phone).

Flash is no longer being updated for Android and only certain devices support it, and without it one can't play Scratch projects online or use 2.0 when it comes out, therefore you're only right about these two. 

All the browsers are just a skin of the safari engine.

Whether you like something or not is not something one can use as a fact, and you seem to be judging these three points according to what you like. Some people like tiny tablet keyboards, some like games "for casuals" and others may like certain mobile browsers as well.

Like you, I would much rather have a computer, or even a notebook, than a tablet as my main device, but I don't deny the fact tablets and smartphones can be really convenient due to their smaller size and ease of use, as well.

Last edited by technoguyx (2012-07-02 20:07:36)

soupoftomato wrote:

Well, tablets will never really be as good as an actual computer or laptop.

Physical keyboards! Done.
ACTUAL gaming! Gaming is already good, and it's about to get much better
Choice of browsers! You can on the iPad.
Flash! Refer to the post above for the Flash discussion.
Scratch! You can use Scratch, and view projects on the iPad, it's just slow. For more Flash look at the above discussion.
And so much more!

funelephant wrote:

I want to read all of this, but all the posts are reaaaaallyyyyyyy long. Can you sum it up in like a paragraph? 

http://i.imgur.com/ioyOJ.gif

Tablets are a big argument, but when you add an iPad in the mix of all the Android and PC fans, there will be quite a discussion. 

Summary in my perspective:
The iPad is the best tablet out there, nothing else competes with it. Tablets should never use Flash and are more on the consumer side than the professional side, but not so much. 

stevetheipad wrote:

funelephant wrote:

I want to read all of this, but all the posts are reaaaaallyyyyyyy long. Can you sum it up in like a paragraph? 

http://i.imgur.com/ioyOJ.gif

Tablets are a big argument, but when you add an iPad in the mix of all the Android and PC fans, there will be quite a discussion. 

Summary in my perspective:
The iPad is the best tablet out there, nothing else competes with it. Tablets should never use Flash and are more on the consumer side than the professional side, but not so much. 

The iPad is the best tablet out there? No. The iPad JAILBROKEN is the best tablet out there.
And if you mean the competition between businesses, the way to make money is not to force your inferior products over a faster, already established competitor. The way to win in a competition is to make a BETTER PRODUCT.

@luiysia: There are other ways to type; the onscreen keyboard is actually very good. My complaint of the on screen keyboard is that to get more of the symbols, like <>?/!@#$%^&*()_-+=`~[]{}\| you have to go through multiple menus each time.

Last edited by 16Skittles (2012-07-03 12:32:15)

16Skittles wrote:

stevetheipad wrote:

funelephant wrote:

I want to read all of this, but all the posts are reaaaaallyyyyyyy long. Can you sum it up in like a paragraph? 

http://i.imgur.com/ioyOJ.gif

Tablets are a big argument, but when you add an iPad in the mix of all the Android and PC fans, there will be quite a discussion. 

Summary in my perspective:
The iPad is the best tablet out there, nothing else competes with it. Tablets should never use Flash and are more on the consumer side than the professional side, but not so much. 

The iPad is the best tablet out there? No. The iPad JAILBROKEN is the best tablet out there.
And if you mean the competition between businesses, the way to make money is not to force your inferior products over a faster, already established competitor. The way to win in a competition is to make a BETTER PRODUCT.

@luiysia: There are other ways to type; the onscreen keyboard is actually very good. My complaint of the on screen keyboard is that to get more of the symbols, like <>?/!@#$%^&*()_-+=`~[]{}\| you have to go through multiple menus each time.

I'm not going to discuss Jailbreaking, but a jailbroken iPad's device name is the iPad, not the Jailbroken iPad, so calm down, it's the same thing!

stevetheipad wrote:

slinger wrote:

stevetheipad wrote:

Yup, it can do everything the iPod Touch can do but it's not limited to that, it does more than that, it's almost a replacement for a laptop, but not quite, as it is it's own category.

I can tell you've never used an iPad, because you don't know about Apple's Pages application on the App Store for the iPad that's one of the App Store's top sellers. It's a really nice word processing app, that's sleek, easy to use and has high ceilings. The fact that you didn't know about Pages tells me you haven't investigated the iPad enough/given the iPad a try yet, which makes your opinion slightly less valid on this subject. 

In reply to "why would anyone buy an iPad as their only computer? That doesn't make sense...":
1. It's a very inexpensive computer
2. It's great for travel, and lots of people travel a lot
3. It's completely capable of being a lone computer and is really easy to sync using iCloud, download apps without the desktop iTunes program and do everything your laptop can do without the huge screen.

I have used an iPad but don't own one. Okay so my opinion is slightly less valid. But my main point is that you can't do everything you need to do on an iPad/anyOtherTablet.

1. Okay so it's in expensive but uh let's face it, it can't do everything.
2. So are laptops. Okay they are a bigger than the iPad...
3. Ah so you think I could write applications in Free Pascal on it? Oh wait, it doesn't support open source, well that basically cuts out a ton of good apps.

All in all the only time you would see me using it would be when I'm travelling because they can do the basics and are a lot smaller than regular laptops.

Slightly? Strongly arguing against a product you've never even really given a try seems to make your point very invalid to me. 

1. You're right, it can't do everything, but it can do everything 90% of laptop users do on their laptops. In fact, I can watch Scratch projects and make Keynotes on my iPad (myself).
2. Again, this is proof you haven't studied up on the iPad enough for this argument. The iPad doesn't ever have to leave your bag when going through security, "it's so light you can't hold bombs in it", a security officer once told me, while laptops have to be taken out, turned on and inspected. On top of that, the iPad weighs 1.33 pounds as opposed to an average of 4 pounds for even Netbooks!
3. Better study some more, I program on my iPad (myself) all the time. 

Um I have an iPod touch, it's very very similar. Despite what you say. Yes, I know it's a bit better but not by much.
1. Okay but what about the 10% that we are missing? Oh no, but I want to program or run other software other than the stuff that's approved by Apple D: Oh well, better get something that does what I need it to do (Android? Regular computer?).
2. Okay so that's an advantage. But I might mention that all tablets don't have to leave your bag. And um how is that proof that I haven't done my research? It seems to me like you're hanging on this one argument "You haven't don your research.". How am I supposed to know they don't have to leave your bag, I've never actually travelled with one >.>
3. Show me a working compiler. I program in Javascript on my iPod but guess what, Javascript isn't the only programming language out there! (It's actually a scripting language)

Edit: I'm not saying that the iPad is not useful, I'm stating my opinion. iPads have been known to help with business productivity BUT right now they seem more like entertainment devices than something you would use to write a report. I would use and iPad for travelling because it's really good for that ;p But I would not dream of developing serious applications on it. And as it stands right now Apple seems to not want open source applications for any of the iOS devices.

Last edited by slinger (2012-07-03 13:37:37)

slinger wrote:

stevetheipad wrote:

slinger wrote:

I have used an iPad but don't own one. Okay so my opinion is slightly less valid. But my main point is that you can't do everything you need to do on an iPad/anyOtherTablet.

1. Okay so it's in expensive but uh let's face it, it can't do everything.
2. So are laptops. Okay they are a bigger than the iPad...
3. Ah so you think I could write applications in Free Pascal on it? Oh wait, it doesn't support open source, well that basically cuts out a ton of good apps.

All in all the only time you would see me using it would be when I'm travelling because they can do the basics and are a lot smaller than regular laptops.

Slightly? Strongly arguing against a product you've never even really given a try seems to make your point very invalid to me. 

1. You're right, it can't do everything, but it can do everything 90% of laptop users do on their laptops. In fact, I can watch Scratch projects and make Keynotes on my iPad (myself).
2. Again, this is proof you haven't studied up on the iPad enough for this argument. The iPad doesn't ever have to leave your bag when going through security, "it's so light you can't hold bombs in it", a security officer once told me, while laptops have to be taken out, turned on and inspected. On top of that, the iPad weighs 1.33 pounds as opposed to an average of 4 pounds for even Netbooks!
3. Better study some more, I program on my iPad (myself) all the time. 

Um I have an iPod touch, it's very very similar. Despite what you say. Yes, I know it's a bit better but not by much.
1. Okay but what about the 10% that we are missing? Oh no, but I want to program or run other software other than the stuff that's approved by Apple D: Oh well, better get something that does what I need it to do (Android? Regular computer?).
2. Okay so that's an advantage. But I might mention that all tablets don't have to leave your bag. And um how is that proof that I haven't done my research? It seems to me like you're hanging on this one argument "You haven't don your research.". How am I supposed to know they don't have to leave your bag, I've never actually travelled with one >.>
3. Show me a working compiler. I program in Javascript on my iPod but guess what, Javascript isn't the only programming language out there! (It's actually a scripting language)

Edit: I'm not saying that the iPad is not useful, I'm stating my opinion. iPads have been known to help with business productivity BUT right now they seem more like entertainment devices than something you would use to write a report. I would use and iPad for travelling because it's really good for that ;p But I would not dream of developing serious applications on it. And as it stands right now Apple seems to not want open source applications for any of the iOS devices.

1. If you're really into programming, I suggest a Mac Book Air or Pro, but this is a tablet discussion, so can't really talk about that here.

2. That's not correct, some of the bulk ones have to be inspected. And what I was saying is that you shouldn't be arguing against something you don't know much about, you're points are extremely invalid sometimes because of this. And this is something you could figure out, it's a little common sense mixed with something you can research.

3. Okay, sure, here's one for ya.  .

Business productivity is just one of millions of uses, the iPad can be used so many ways. Yup - if you want to become a serious developer, obviously you won't just be programming huge projects on an iPad, you'll be doing it best on a Mac Book Air or Pro.

Also, note that I'm not mad with you, I'm just proving that the iPad is the best tablet and it's limits can hardly be seen. 

Last edited by stevetheipad (2012-07-03 16:03:00)

illusionist wrote:

Mail it to me if you don't want it. 

And to think I thought you were a cool retired moderator. 

SpriteMaster wrote:

777w wrote:

SpriteMaster wrote:

Never thought you guys were so engrossed in discussing tablets.

you dont spend much time on the forums do you

Haven't been on recently too much but I've been here for quite a while :l

Just never thought THIS of all things would be discussed much XD Should have known.

stevetheipad wrote:

777w wrote:

you dont spend much time on the forums do you

Haha, 777w's right. 

If you're saying he's 'right' then I'm wrong?

In what way am I wrong? 

I'm stevetheipad, what'd you expect? 

I was just saying I talk about iPads and tablets and computers a lot, like 777w said, I wasn't being negative in any way shape or form. 

stevetheipad wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

*ARGH I HIT THE BACK BUTTON AND ERASED MY WALL OF TEXT*

I don't care personally about the Scratch app (for me now Scratch is just a community) but the reasons are not good. Scratch at the time was in no way related to Flash, and I still believe that the Flash Player should be accessible on the iPad. There are a few major arguments used against Flash.

1.) The Flash Player will drain battery life faster than without it.
Solution: Maybe allow browser plugins *cough* and then people would be able to use Push to Flash and only allow Flash to run when it is needed. FYI, Apple's own iAd service has been shown to drain battery life faster than on the full version without ads.

2.) Flash games are unplayable because of the lack of a physical keyboard and arrow keys. Here's some more news: games are not the only use of Flash. Web pages can be made out of it (although it is not the best practice) and YouTube and other video streaming services use it. The default YouTube app is abysmally slow on my home internet connection. The mobile version of youtube.com allows me to set pathetic quality which loads a ten-minute video in one minute. In Chrome I can scale the quality down partially and load the videos fine.

On the flash player, I can load standard-res videos without issues. I tried the app iSwifter, an app that allows you to mirror a web browser with Flash enabled. I was able to stream an entire screen of YouTube in that app faster than I can load just the video in the standard YouTube app.

3.) Apple can not ensure the quality of Flash games, and therefore does not want to "ruin the user experience." So you're telling me that no apps on the App Store crash or are non-functional?


Also, they are control freak over competition. Web browsers are forced to use Safari's rendering engine, so all that they can gain is a better UI. I want Firefox's personas feature. I want plugins. But for some reason Apple wants to restrict that. Probably they don't want people complaining about how you can't delete Safari.

There are some apps to do some coding, but if you can find an app that will let me work on my C++ or Java programs, please let me know.

Flash is simply not meant to be used on a mobile device, Apple gave Adobe a chance and Adobe refused to make a version enhanced for mobile devices. Designers had clunky PCs in mind when building Flash and guess what? iDevices are not clunky PCs.

The iPad was build specifically to run in it's environment with it's stuff, and specifically not just build for a portable laptop that they could throw old stuff in there, or they would have a Mac OSX Mountain Lion tablet that was made for a laptop but thrown on an iPad. Flash is not mobile device-friendly, it's clunky PC-friendly. So to say "Apple just can't figure out how to get it working well on the iPad" is both irrelevant and just an excuse.  .

Shouldn't it be the consumer's choice what they get to run? When I buy a product, I feel like I should get the right to put whatever software on it I want.

veggieman001 wrote:

stevetheipad wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

*ARGH I HIT THE BACK BUTTON AND ERASED MY WALL OF TEXT*

I don't care personally about the Scratch app (for me now Scratch is just a community) but the reasons are not good. Scratch at the time was in no way related to Flash, and I still believe that the Flash Player should be accessible on the iPad. There are a few major arguments used against Flash.

1.) The Flash Player will drain battery life faster than without it.
Solution: Maybe allow browser plugins *cough* and then people would be able to use Push to Flash and only allow Flash to run when it is needed. FYI, Apple's own iAd service has been shown to drain battery life faster than on the full version without ads.

2.) Flash games are unplayable because of the lack of a physical keyboard and arrow keys. Here's some more news: games are not the only use of Flash. Web pages can be made out of it (although it is not the best practice) and YouTube and other video streaming services use it. The default YouTube app is abysmally slow on my home internet connection. The mobile version of youtube.com allows me to set pathetic quality which loads a ten-minute video in one minute. In Chrome I can scale the quality down partially and load the videos fine.

On the flash player, I can load standard-res videos without issues. I tried the app iSwifter, an app that allows you to mirror a web browser with Flash enabled. I was able to stream an entire screen of YouTube in that app faster than I can load just the video in the standard YouTube app.

3.) Apple can not ensure the quality of Flash games, and therefore does not want to "ruin the user experience." So you're telling me that no apps on the App Store crash or are non-functional?


Also, they are control freak over competition. Web browsers are forced to use Safari's rendering engine, so all that they can gain is a better UI. I want Firefox's personas feature. I want plugins. But for some reason Apple wants to restrict that. Probably they don't want people complaining about how you can't delete Safari.

There are some apps to do some coding, but if you can find an app that will let me work on my C++ or Java programs, please let me know.

Flash is simply not meant to be used on a mobile device, Apple gave Adobe a chance and Adobe refused to make a version enhanced for mobile devices. Designers had clunky PCs in mind when building Flash and guess what? iDevices are not clunky PCs.

The iPad was build specifically to run in it's environment with it's stuff, and specifically not just build for a portable laptop that they could throw old stuff in there, or they would have a Mac OSX Mountain Lion tablet that was made for a laptop but thrown on an iPad. Flash is not mobile device-friendly, it's clunky PC-friendly. So to say "Apple just can't figure out how to get it working well on the iPad" is both irrelevant and just an excuse.  .

Shouldn't it be the consumer's choice what they get to run? When I buy a product, I feel like I should get the right to put whatever software on it I want.

No, "...consumers don't know what they want, we have to decide that for them..." -Steve Jobs.